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Are there lawyers among us?
In short, the situation: in January (before the virus) booked a tour to Egypt. They were supposed to fly on April 15, but due to the situation in the world they decided to cancel (because in order to reschedule for the fall, they had to pay another 2,500 dollars). The cancellation was reported on 15.03, a month in advance. The tour operator reports that the penalty will be 60%. I'm a freak, to be honest. What do you advise? Is there such an idea, to gather everyone (the same as me) and sue that fucking Anex?
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Answers • 38
The situation is not very good. I am also with a tour for 21.04 and June ..... There will be no refund (if Ukraine, I won’t tell you about other countries), we are waiting for the quarantine to be extended and we are rescheduling the tour, the only way
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answered 5 years ago
If you decide to cancel, then 100% fine ..... well, it’s important from some kind of tour, because there are moments for transferring, different conditions
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answered 5 years ago
The tour operator also flew in. Who will compensate him for the losses?
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answered 5 years ago
read the contract. if you paid in full, you may be rescheduled for other dates, it is unlikely to return the money
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answered 5 years ago
Vic-Grinn Disagree! If the tours are for a month or more, then what are the losses. As a rule, payment for hotels is not carried out immediately, but two weeks before departure, at least at Tez and Tui. Egyptian hotels are closed for quarantine, there are no entry and exit. the hotel kept your seat also no. The flight for a month or more was also not paid for, All flights were canceled. Some expenses, this is the percentage received by the travel agency that went to salaries, taxes, rent. and the business incurs losses, but no one compensates for it. The better the tourist business.
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4.5
answered 5 years ago
moy contakt Our situation is generally comedic. The tour was bought on January 3 for April 26 from Tez. At the beginning of March, prices for tours dropped sharply. We decided to save $400. meeting and canceled our application without penalties, despite the fact that it fell on the high season, where there is a 100 percent penalty.: On March 6, we booked a new tour from Tui, also on April 26, taking into account the offset of the money paid, which will be returned from Teza. The new contract has the amount paid and the conditions of Tui, that for all tours purchased from March 3 to March 31 and with a departure after April 25, in case of non-departure, a full refund will be made. Accordingly, after how many years it is not indicated. This is such a confusing situation. Now to panic and demand something it is useless to change, you have to wait, and then we'll see. The main thing is that everyone is healthy. And, we will return to Egypt anyway.
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1.5
answered 5 years ago
The fact is that in a situation when force majeure is officially announced, everyone who has a tour falling on these dates can simply be sent (which TPG wanted to do right away), and people were offered a transfer, they still, one might say, humanly approached the situation.
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answered 5 years ago
In this case, lawyers will not help, since everything happens strictly according to the contract. If return without penalty is allowed, you can return, if not allowed, then you cannot return.
If the quarantine is extended and the tour operator is not allowed to fly, the operator will offer you to change the dates.
If the quarantine is extended and the tour operator is not allowed to fly, the operator will offer you to change the dates.
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answered 5 years ago
0676307776, force majeure has been officially declared in the country. Today it affects the dates from 14.03 to 3.04. All tours that fall within this period can be easily canceled with a 100% penalty. Tours that fall on later dates can be canceled according to the terms of the contract, but I'm sure that the quarantine will be extended. I think that you can forget about the return, maximum transfer .... I consulted with lawyers, they are ready to defend our rights in courts, but not for free. Are you ready to pay the costs? This is a long and costly process, according to Ole's losses per tour.
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5
answered 5 years ago
The law on economic issues is the rules for regulating these relations. And from an economic point of view, it is naive to think that Anex is sitting on the money received and does not want to give it to tourists. It is also naive to think that he did not spend them on production activities. Now he takes out his tourists from Egypt. Flights are empty. Losses. A lot of money paid to hotels in Egypt and Turkey for tours that will not take place in the near future. There are no new tours.
If someone else doubts that this is not force majeure (there were such here), then no one can resist the actual costs incurred. It's even in the consumer protection law. And the representative of the operator will show these costs in court - for flights, for payments to hotels, for salaries, for insurance, for taxes, for currency conversion. A lawyer who will undertake to defend a tourist in such a situation is a charlatan who earns money on the stupidity of a client. Offer such a lawyer not a fixed fee, but a percentage of the return. And you will see the reaction
If someone else doubts that this is not force majeure (there were such here), then no one can resist the actual costs incurred. It's even in the consumer protection law. And the representative of the operator will show these costs in court - for flights, for payments to hotels, for salaries, for insurance, for taxes, for currency conversion. A lawyer who will undertake to defend a tourist in such a situation is a charlatan who earns money on the stupidity of a client. Offer such a lawyer not a fixed fee, but a percentage of the return. And you will see the reaction
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answered 5 years ago
For 0676307776. Until March 6, all operators canceled under normal conditions. Even on March 13 - I have a fresh case. Here the situation is completely different for the topicaster.
And your phrase - "we booked a new tour from Tui also on April 26, taking into account the offset of the money paid, which will return from Tez" !!! This is nonsense, to put it mildly.
Analogue - I returned the defective goods in one store and with the money that they promised to return to my card in a month, I bought the goods in another competitor store in installments.
TEZ has no money for a refund either. There are assets - paid flights and hotels. The usual return period is one month. Now he will be. And they will return at the old rate. And you have already paid something for booking with TUI, on April 12 you will need to pay in full. And already on a new course. So you really need to take care of your health.
And your phrase - "we booked a new tour from Tui also on April 26, taking into account the offset of the money paid, which will return from Tez" !!! This is nonsense, to put it mildly.
Analogue - I returned the defective goods in one store and with the money that they promised to return to my card in a month, I bought the goods in another competitor store in installments.
TEZ has no money for a refund either. There are assets - paid flights and hotels. The usual return period is one month. Now he will be. And they will return at the old rate. And you have already paid something for booking with TUI, on April 12 you will need to pay in full. And already on a new course. So you really need to take care of your health.
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answered 5 years ago
In vain I wrote this. Sorry. But you surprised me with your example from a past life (March 6).
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answered 5 years ago
moy_contakt , I agree of course ... the action of force majeure circumstances .. no one owes anything to anyone.
Only the action of such a force needs to be confirmed with a force majeure certificate ...
I recommend reading here .. after the contract of course ..
https://ucci.org.ua/press-center/ucci-news/faq-iaki-naiposhirenishi-zvernennia-do-tpp-u-zvia zku-z-fors-mazhorom
Only the action of such a force needs to be confirmed with a force majeure certificate ...
I recommend reading here .. after the contract of course ..
https://ucci.org.ua/press-center/ucci-news/faq-iaki-naiposhirenishi-zvernennia-do-tpp-u-zvia zku-z-fors-mazhorom
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answered 5 years ago
"certificate of force majeure",
you can refer to the legislation on the "certificate" - what real laws, decrees, resolutions, decisions govern this. Which authority is required by law to issue this "certificate"
you can refer to the legislation on the "certificate" - what real laws, decrees, resolutions, decisions govern this. Which authority is required by law to issue this "certificate"
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answered 5 years ago
I think that in the contract, force majeure circumstances are those that occur through no fault of the tour operator. In this case, the certificate will most likely not be needed.
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answered 5 years ago
in this situation, force majeure is not even the main thing. Anex does not return 100%; a standard contract always provides for penalties for a return. when they bought the tour, apparently, they did not pay attention to this. signed the contract and agreed to the terms. but, now the tourists want to cancel the tour and want the tour operator to return what they are not entitled to claim according to the signed agreement.
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answered 5 years ago
Author, what do lawyers have to do with it? Anex always has fines for canceling a tour and it's all spelled out in the contract that you signed. Say thank you that only 60% of the fine, not all 100%.
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answered 5 years ago
camomille your links from sites point to this law
https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/530-IX
Where are the words about force majeure and certificates in the text?
https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/530-IX
Where are the words about force majeure and certificates in the text?
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answered 5 years ago
Correctly refer to this law
https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/671/97-вр
Chambers of Commerce and Industry in Ukraine issue certificates, but for this you need to fill out an application plus add the necessary documents and will be considered from 7 working days if you are a business entity and 21 working days if an individual
The most important thing is that the service is paid and here are the tariffs, for urgency the tariff is 2 times higher
https://www.ucci.org.ua/media/filemanager/law-tarifs.pdf
If the application and documents are executed incorrectly, you may be denied
https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/671/97-вр
Chambers of Commerce and Industry in Ukraine issue certificates, but for this you need to fill out an application plus add the necessary documents and will be considered from 7 working days if you are a business entity and 21 working days if an individual
The most important thing is that the service is paid and here are the tariffs, for urgency the tariff is 2 times higher
https://www.ucci.org.ua/media/filemanager/law-tarifs.pdf
If the application and documents are executed incorrectly, you may be denied
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answered 5 years ago
The situation today is such that everyone will survive as best they can, and TO is no exception. We can discuss a lot here what, how, who is entitled to what, etc., but our realities are such that (I speak for Ukraine) for the time being we can count on rescheduling tours, but there will definitely be no compensation or refunds. Not one TO will survive if he starts to fulfill all requests for a refund. We can only wait and hope for a speedy resolution of this situation. All health.
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4.5
answered 5 years ago
Vika284
Part two of Article 14-1 of the Law of Ukraine "On Chambers of Commerce and Industry in Ukraine " (Vidomosti Verkhovnoi Rady Ukrainy, 1998, № 13, p. 52; 2014, № 44, p. 2040) after the words "introduction of curfew" to add the words "quarantine established by the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine".
here is this article that adds to the CCI law and brings the current situation under force majeure and, as a result, pulls up the certificates.
Part two of Article 14-1 of the Law of Ukraine "On Chambers of Commerce and Industry in Ukraine " (Vidomosti Verkhovnoi Rady Ukrainy, 1998, № 13, p. 52; 2014, № 44, p. 2040) after the words "introduction of curfew" to add the words "quarantine established by the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine".
here is this article that adds to the CCI law and brings the current situation under force majeure and, as a result, pulls up the certificates.
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answered 5 years ago
We are from Minsk. our tour was on March 17, on the evening of 16 we were informed that Egypt was closing its borders from March 19 and we were not flying anywhere. We got everything we paid. The only thing lost on the dollar. TO-joy app.
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1.5
answered 5 years ago
You are lucky, we Ukrainians only dream that we will get something at all .... They said be glad that you agree to transfer, and not send .... with a 100% fine ....
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answered 5 years ago
Tell the tour operator that you agree to fly - let him provide a range of services prescribed in the contract. Can not? Request a refund on this basis. Even through the court.
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1.5
answered 5 years ago
dima_80_ you did not understand the current situation. an official force majeure event has been declared, as a result of which the participants can refer to a clause in the contract on force majeure and refuse to fulfill their obligations both in terms of organizing recreation and returning the funds received. Moreover, if the tour does not fall on quarantine dates and the time for depositing funds approaches, they will demand payment under the contract, no matter how ridiculous and strange it sounds. Everyone understands that no one flies anywhere (the borders are closed), but there is an agreement according to which you need to make a payment. But if your tour is 100% paid, then no one will return the money to you, the maximum transfer and then, at the price of the online tour and the current rate (the fact that the money was deposited at the rate does not count, it is considered that now you have an amount in hryvnia on deposit ). Complete trash. I gave the contract to a lawyer to work with, he, together with a representative of the TA, communicates with the TO on the subject of "let's think about how to make both you and us." Retroactively, TO made changes to agency contracts ...
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answered 5 years ago
moy_contakt, and "how old are you and how old are they"?
And above they wrote - "no one will return the money to you." Contradiction.
I also consulted out of curiosity.
Firstly, they are not trading with anyone now. Don't want to transfer? Refunds only for actual costs incurred, which are currently 100%. They don't even refer to force majeure.
It will not be difficult for them to show these costs in court. They now do not have 100%, they now have losses after the exports. Everyone is working only to save the business. to then compensate for the losses and return to normal work. No "bargaining", only by a court decision, which will be in six months and not in favor of the tourist.
Secondly, I was told that only TUI transfers at the current rate. All others are transferred at the rate of payment.
And above they wrote - "no one will return the money to you." Contradiction.
I also consulted out of curiosity.
Firstly, they are not trading with anyone now. Don't want to transfer? Refunds only for actual costs incurred, which are currently 100%. They don't even refer to force majeure.
It will not be difficult for them to show these costs in court. They now do not have 100%, they now have losses after the exports. Everyone is working only to save the business. to then compensate for the losses and return to normal work. No "bargaining", only by a court decision, which will be in six months and not in favor of the tourist.
Secondly, I was told that only TUI transfers at the current rate. All others are transferred at the rate of payment.
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answered 5 years ago
It is necessary to look not at the situation logically, but not emotionally. And then it turns out funny - a little positive news and a completely different approach. Look here - https://www.turpravda.com/eg/question-99942.html
Two days have passed and completely different intonations. Since May ollennka is going to Greece.
The most important thing is not to take steps that cannot be corrected.
Otherwise, two of my colleagues were supposed to fly on a paid tour to Egypt on March 14th. The first flew away, and the second was afraid. The first returned safely tanned and optimistic. And the second is now running around lawyers. Lawyers, as always, inspire hope for payment.
The funny thing is that the second one is now running at a time when it is really better to run less.
It is unpleasant to lose money, but it is even more unpleasant to lose it foolishly.
Two days have passed and completely different intonations. Since May ollennka is going to Greece.
The most important thing is not to take steps that cannot be corrected.
Otherwise, two of my colleagues were supposed to fly on a paid tour to Egypt on March 14th. The first flew away, and the second was afraid. The first returned safely tanned and optimistic. And the second is now running around lawyers. Lawyers, as always, inspire hope for payment.
The funny thing is that the second one is now running at a time when it is really better to run less.
It is unpleasant to lose money, but it is even more unpleasant to lose it foolishly.
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answered 5 years ago
prosto2000, I have a situation of 3 tours at different times, different countries and I'm not demanding money, but really trying to solve the situation no matter what they demanded from me. The March tour of Egypt was added to the April one, where there was an advance payment of 30% and the March money was just enough to make it happen. Type 100% payment for the tour. Tui is waiting for the extension of quarantine and I will transfer it as far as possible. But Spain for June with a payment of 30%, and 900 euros have been paid and I understand that there will be no Spain in June, but when the time comes in May, they will require payment ... And I am ready to reschedule the tour as well, but what would I was no longer required to pay extra, and this is the moment the lawyers decide. I understand that there will be no talk of a refund, but these guys also want money .... According to the contract.
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answered 5 years ago
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